The Race and Wealth Podcast Network

Preach 14: Can you close the racial wealth divide in one generation?

September 17, 2020 The Race & Wealth Team on how to close the racial wealth divide through art, media, policy, literacy, and action
The Race and Wealth Podcast Network
Preach 14: Can you close the racial wealth divide in one generation?
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The Race and Wealth Podcast Network
Preach 14: Can you close the racial wealth divide in one generation?
Sep 17, 2020
The Race & Wealth Team on how to close the racial wealth divide through art, media, policy, literacy, and action

In our monthly Preach episode with Dedrick Asante Muhammed  we talk about what policies, Art, and media need to get put in place to close to racial wealth divide in a generation. It’s not cheap, it’s not easy, and it’s going to take a huge mental, emotional, and economic shift in thinking from private wealth to public wealth.

Show Notes Transcript

In our monthly Preach episode with Dedrick Asante Muhammed  we talk about what policies, Art, and media need to get put in place to close to racial wealth divide in a generation. It’s not cheap, it’s not easy, and it’s going to take a huge mental, emotional, and economic shift in thinking from private wealth to public wealth.

Dyalekt :

To make you feel safe, a couple people had to get displaced. But right up the black an unarmed black man got shot. And to keep his job another brother had to cut off his locks. And you scared I'll force you to be PC man, you must be on PCP. I don't know much, but i know one thing, you got to preach to the choir so they know what to sing. I don't know much, but i know one thing, you got to preach to the choir So they know what to sing. I don't know much, but I know one thing you got to appreciate. So they know what to say much. Racism is a garbage fire and if you feel it in your heart that you're tired, you got to preach to the choir so they know what to sing. This is the Preach to The Choir podcast where we talk about how culture effects the racial wealth divide and vice versa. Recorded live from wherever we reside. We have our hosts Pamela Capalad, the certified financial planner and founder of bunch and budget. We haveDedrick Asante-Muhammad, Chief of Race, Wealth and community at NCRC. And I'm Dyalekt, I'm the tour guide and research assistant magazine with dead words preach to the choir. Part of the reason well, Podcast Network.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC :

Yes. All right. So we have a big question to answer today. A very big question. And I feel like it's a question that people have been trying to answer in our generation for a long time. Can we close the racial wealth divide in a generation?

Dyalekt :

Yes. No. Maybe.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC :

maybe? I don't know. Is there short answer to this.

Dedrick Asante-Muhammad :

So, yes, I think it's possible. Obviously, it would cost a lot to do this in the shorter time period. You're doing it the more than the cost per year. You know, I think generally I'm most emphatic like, are we, you know, are we want to pat to close the racial wealth divide if it takes 20 years or takes 40 years, as long as we're on the path, particularly when we recognize that we've been on a path of growing racial wealth inequality, it's like, it's not even that approach to the issue that, like, we have been moving fast enough is that we've been moving in the wrong direction. So I'm, I've been so beaten down by trying to advocate for this work, I would be happy to get on the path, the right direction and do it in the next 20, 40 years. Because we're talking significant amounts of money because we get into a little bit more I don't think people understand.

Dyalekt :

Yeah, well, as you as you say that there's a lot of people who are demanding it now. Right? A lot of people are like, we need to fix this and do this. And we're going to do it now. I don't need to see it done now. And I need to see the thing that's just gonna do it. Yeah. And I guess that's the difficulty is there's not a thing that's just gonna do it. Yeah.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC :

No, I think that we're looking for the magic bullet. I think that we have the tendency to watch magic bullet for these kinds of things without really taking into account how complex this is not only on the financial side, but also on the reason why we do these shows because art and media have told us that like, maybe just how should be right. Yeah, also combating a lot of I believe we're combating a lot of just like societal things that are telling us like, well, maybe that's not supposed to happen.

Dyalekt :

I think it's what we're combating is a belief that bullets can be magic. Cause if bullets have the possibility to be magic we'd be solving a lot of our prolems.

Dedrick Asante-Muhammad :

Our level defense spending, we should be able to do that pretty easy.

Dyalekt :

Well, I mean, that's really the thing is like, you know, the idea that we call this a magic bullet rather than we're calling it a magic letter opener or something like that. It's not like a tool we're talking about. We talked about a weapon and we're trying to add on some social services to a weapon that's only there to cause death. Like we talked about how like, Oh, you know, one of the things that the police is they're doing too many jobs, but it's like a metaphor that's indicative of the whole thing.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC :

Yeah. No, for sure. I mean, so going back to what you said Dedrick, about creating policy that at least is working towards closing the racial divide because right now our policies are working on widening the racial wealth divide right now, right? And doing a great job of it. It's working. I mean, if you see it, even just within this pandemic, to see like, the wealthiest billionaires grow their wealth by, you know, $700 billion, while there's 30 million Americans still on unemployment, while there's people not able to make the rent, things like that. I mean, I feel like that this moment in time is growing the racial wealth divide in a lot of ways. So if we're not going to close the racial wealth divide in one generation, what are the things that you feel we need to put in place to start moving in the right direction?

Diedrich Asante Mohamad :

I just want to add, I think you're bringing you're bringing in two important pieces, right is the racial wealth divide. And there's the general concentration of wealth, right, because even when this country wasn't having such a regressive economy, where the wealthy were getting almost all of the gains of the growth in the economy, even in the 60s, and These are 50s and 60s, he had a more progressive economy, there still was this massive racial wealth divide that wasn't being addressed. So, you know, it's just I think it shows the added challenge we have. So we're in a massively aggressive economy, where even among whites, you're seeing a concentration of wealth among the absolute wealthiest, With blacks and Latinos, you're seeing groups that are in such, you know, deep levels of asset poverty, how do we bridge that in terms of immediate. But, you know, you were asking, you know, what, what do we think we can do to address the racial wealth, divide in a generation or two or what have you. And you know, what we haven't done, which is what we need to do is have some big policy, that does do serious investments that will disproportionately or solely go to the black and brown communities that you want to see grow economically and grow in wealth. Right. And that can be everything from a universal program like baby bonds to something more specific, like reparations for African Americans and Native Americans and reparations can be 1000 different things. Part of reparations should be transferring significant amounts of money and investment into these community. Those are the things I like to see is that a massive federal investment targeted at bridging those things we haven't done that. At best, they would criticize welfare and say, Oh, we kept some people from starving. And we kept a lot of black people from starving. So now we're equal. And it's like, Huh, no, that's not bridging the racial wealth divide, like, including African Americans and others in social welfare programs that existed for whites for 30 or 40 years prior. That's not bridging the racial, you know, you should do that we should be included in all programs. But and I guess that's part of the differences. You can be Fighting discrimination. But that doesn't mean you should be doing a positive policy. But because you're doing those things doesn't mean that you're actually bridging the racial wealth divide, right? And real clear analysis and metrics, if that's what you're trying to do.

Dyalekt :

Yes, it's like a gesture is not the same thing as accomplishing something. I think that's something folks need to get done. I wanted to note that when you were saying about reparations being needed for black Americans, as well as Native Americans, I already heard in the back of my head that people who are like, Well, wait a second, Native Americans already got treaties and lands and reservation and casinos and stuff? Aren't they good? Are they taken care of? And one No, and two just because more than nothing happened, doesn't mean that you did enough to do any sort of bridging or building and also when we talk about the Native American population, think about how many of those treaties and things have been gone back on even in recent years.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC :

No, for sure. Well, and I think to Dedrick, you brought up a point that we're talking about before the show about this idea of, you know, the difference between employment Universal or race neutral policies, right? And then maybe that will like trickle down to closing the racial wealth divide, versus doing targeted policies that directly positively affect black and brown communities. Do we need to focus on one or the other?

Dyalekt :

like we can't be doing both of those things.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC :

Yeah. And how would How would How would all of that work? Like what are kind of the big policies that you feel like you mentioned baby bonds? You mentioned reparations, you talked about universal jobs guaranteed. We've talked about like a universal safety net in general, right, like a social safety net in general on the show, like, what would it take, like if you were to be able to wave a magic wand? Right? If you could Dedrick Asante-Muhammad, knowing everything you know, close the racial wealth divide in a generation, what would you put in place?

Diedrich Asante Mohamad :

Yeah, I would do a mixture of recreating the American middle class in the 21st. First Century sometimes have massive investment in rebuilding and making race inclusive for the first time, in addition to reparations. Reparations, that is aimed at, you know, financial transfer of money and also recognizing the history, contemporary reality, and apologizing in a sense and doing education. So I would do both of those things, right, kind of like green New Deal, but more like black people red, black and green New Deal. And part of that red, black, green new deal would be a reparations component. And since we're doing it for African Americans, Native Americans, only about 1% of the population, let's just add them on. It just give them reparations to really help get past our white supremacist stuff. And you know, and then there's a whole bunch of policies that could be tied into that, for the, you know, kind of 21st century middle class stuff. I would focus on the universal policy, right, like I think there should be universal employment, right. There should be universal health care. there does need to be massive spending. On recreating of infrastructure, which can help us with jobs, and which can help us with having stronger and better communities. So that's where I put on this rebuilding the American middle class, which hopefully was beneficial to everyone society as a whole, even those who aren't owed reparations, but it just suffered under being in a regressive economy that didn't have a lot of basic social welfare for its people. And then I would have in particular, reparations for African Americans, Native Americans, I thought of more in the sense of African Americans, I wrote a piece in The Guardian about a direct money transfer of around $20,000 a year, every year for 20 years, like that is a generation. I don't think that by itself closes the racial wealth divide. And actually, I think the full effects of that would be over a couple generations, right? Because he was for 20 years. The idea of that everyone would end that 20 years Born in that 20 years would continue to get the funding. So that you know, yeah, that would go multi general. And part of the reason I framed it that way was because and we've talked about this before, is you're going to have enough funding over enough amount of time that people can make mistakes, could use things to pay off debt, but then also have money at the end and over time to also invest in different types of assets that will give them returns and create wealth. So, you know, it's, it's something that needs to happen over time. That's why I did that 20 year $20,000. But it's many other proposals of, you know, some type of land grants or free college or these types of things, but I think we do have to give material money or baby bounds.

Dyalekt :

Yeah, can I throw on there since we're magic wanding, I want to add some magic green lighting there too. Because for those things to work out and for people to accept them, there also has to be two major changes. We have to have major changes in our education, and major changes in our arts and the major change in our education is the idea that we only have a zero sum situation, right? Yeah, if I have something that you have to have something taken away from you, right.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC :

Because I think that's the fear when people hear reparations, right? They're like, Well, I'm not black Are you gonna take the money for me? I think that is that right? Well, yeah idea of zero sum capitalism.

Dyalekt :

And actually, I'm saying this all because it's really the zero sum capitalism part is really what needs to be done in the arts part. And in the education part, we need to take away the idea that an A is the only appropriate grade to get you know, there's this idea that this you guys know this from school I remember when you get the extra credit, you can get 105%. Even a real thing doesn't make any bad math, but you put 105% on your test, because it's not even good enough to be the best the best. You have to be the best, the best, the best or else you're nothing. Yeah, we have to be able to remove that from our education system thats stumbling through fumbling through as we were saying Dedrick about making mistakes, people have this big idea in our heads that the only appropriate way to be poor os to never make a mistake, save sparklingly and define that little opportunity and explode that into becoming rich or at least changing your status. And that was an education thing, the idea that we're taking from each other like the poorest white folks have to know that we're probably not taking from you to be giving to reparations. The white folks who believe that and many folks who believe that they are middle class but are actually doing way better than just the middle, they are going to have something taken from them. And we have to understand that that is okay.

Diedrich Asante Mohamad :

Commenting on that point about the idea of not been able to make mistakes, no, it's like we have that kind of thought. But at the same time, the whole kind of Silicon Valley, there's no mistakes, there's only lessons learn.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC :

Like fail forward, why do they get to have that culture to have that.

Diedrich Asante Mohamad :

When a poor person, a poor black person says Well, hey, I'm going to Have a little bit of money, I'm gonna buy something nice for myself, like some shoes. And I'm not saving it in a 401 K, because I really don't even see myself living to get the 401 K, you don't bring that as a fail forward, they just frame it as a failure and who they are also a justification of why they're in that situation, right? So I just want to highlight how we can think one group is just failures and the other people fail forward. Because they magically whatever they do, right or wrong, it's something's progress for them. And there's some truth to that, because we have been in a white supremacist society so that they can fail, they can fail over and over again. And most of the people from that class are still going to be generally economically Okay. They might not be millionaires, but most of them will generally be. Okay. So I thought that was an important piece of what you were talking about.

Dyalekt :

Yeah. And that does go along those racial lines because as you're saying that I'm thinking about, you know, your social network type films where they talk about why money entrepreneurs who fail and make mistakes and get to where they need to be.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC :

Well, and this journey is like celebrated,

Dyalekt :

Like when you contrast it with even rich black people like when you think of like a you're gonna be creative like, look at like the the Biggie one that they did. He had to be extremely competent in what he did he could not make failures. You could have made sacrifices.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC :

Yeah, but every step that he every decision he made, every step that he took was exactly right.

Dyalekt :

Well, and especially in the way that they were portrayed in media. It was all accessible steps. Yeah, he got little Kim and everything that's successful stuff and all these things building on each other. That's the only path that you get.

Dedrick Asante-Muhammad :

Also your zero some idea that people think of it that way. I think that is actually one of the reasons why some people are like, like you said, you can either do a green New Deal or, you know, mass investing in the middle class. And actually, Obama said this, I've been reading Sandy Daredi and Kirsten Molins book From Here To Equality. And in that book, it notes how when Obama was asked about reparations right after he was right after he became president. He went on this thing about how well, you know, I don't think we can get reparations. And I think, you know, through universal policies and build the middle class, that that will solve it, and we can get back. So we're going to do that. So it was kind of almost like, it was never in his mind, we can try to do both. It was, well, we can probably do though it didn't really happen under his eight years of administration. We didn't rebuild the American middle class. But but it's all tied together. So just do things. Actually, they need to be tied together. So people can see that it's gonna be a game for everybody, even as we particularly target particular groups.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC :

Right. Well, I mean, going back to something you said earlier about how the reason why you need to give a black American $20,000 a year for 20 years is because in those first 4, 5, 6 years, they're catching up, right? It's why you can't just do universal policies across the board. It's why you have to do targeted policies towards black and brown families. Because there's this catch up factor that we don't consider, we don't consider how behind black and brown families already are right now. And if you just do these like race, neutral universal policies, then maybe we'll close the racial wealth divide by default, but it'll take so much longer, because we're not addressing the direct issues, the debt that was accrued, the lack of health care, or the lack of mental health, all of these things are accumulated that black and brown families need help catching up to.

Dyalekt :

You were saying earlier about how everything that we're doing is sending us in the negative direction. So if we have you know, 10 policies that are going into negative and we create one new, even powerful one that's going to the positive that's not going to fix things and if we already have tendency to be racially unfair with how we distribute these things that's probably gonna continue if we don't do something about that part.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC :

I mean, I think this is where the art and media really come in. Because at the end of the day, these policies are administered by people, right? And if we don't think about that aspect of it, if we think like, Oh, we just create the policy, we just create the program. Like, if you look at the the GI Bill abuses in the 1940s, right, we're technically every veteran was able to access VA loans to buy a home, they're able to access higher education, but black veterans in particular were pushed towards vocational schools, black veterans in particular were denied home loans, even though they were veterans. And so if we don't change how people think and feel about wanting to close the racial wealth divide, and we don't address that in the art in the media, then we're not going to be able to do it either just with policy.

Dyalekt :

If we don't make it real, it never will be real. How many times have you seen white people react to these brands who have like a black Out days, and they're like we support yada, yada, yada. And I've seen so many people say that just like so many people say, I don't believe you, you have to say that.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC :

Yeah. Yeah, there's already such a distrust.

Dedrick Asante-Muhammad :

We have a history of coming up on 100 years of theoretically race neutral policies are looking at in the 1940s and 50s. In particular, that will be building the American middle class that weren't race neutral and implementation. Right. So, you know, and again, I don't mean to dismiss universal policies, and actually, let's go back to the baby bond piece and the idea of closing things within a generation. If you want to do comprehensive, you know, if we did the green New Deal, and serious reparations, yeah, it's possible you could do racial wealth divide in 20 years, you know, after spending, I would estimate anything from $10-$20 trillion. I think you probably could, but like, that's the type of money we're talking about. Well, and even with the baby bonds piece, you know, I've heard some people say that they can close the racial wealth divide in a generation through baby bonds, high level baby bonds, $6,000 for the poorest, but we've got think about that, that usually, you don't get the baby bond until after you're 18 or 20. Yeah, right. So that means that if we started it tomorrow, and 2021, you know, people won't be getting that money until even start getting that money. So generation from now. Right. So thats not in a generation that's in a generation will start. And then how will it go forward in the future. So you have to think about all of these things about you know, what is the timetable? We want something to immediately move forward now, and that can build wealth over generations.

Dyalekt :

Yeah, that that brings up the idea of like, all the technicalities. Because I guess, you know, like maybe it is possible to take down and remove the racial wealth divide in a generation, not just not this generation. Some abstract generation out there somewhere like 2585.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC :

Our kids, kids generation will be well, I guess that's the thing is that is a lofty and maybe overly ambitious and maybe unrealistic idea to close something in a generation that took multiple generations to get here.

Dedrick Asante-Muhammad :

I mean, yeah, it's taking hundreds of years to get where we are today. You know, I think it's a fine goal. I was on a radio show in New Orleans yesterday, and this guy was talking about how nonprofit foundations funded nonprofit $100,000 for a $10 billion problem. And wonder why the problem isn't solved. And that's just my thing. If we're going to say we're going to close the racial wealth divide in a generation, then fine, put the funding the $10 to $20 trillion needed to do that in a generation. But don't say, we're going to do that through, I don't know, stronger on employment checks, right? Or a few more grants or scholarships as black colleges like no one gets the massive amount of money we're pouring in to do that.

Dyalekt :

Right. Right. That makes me think of what was it that Hassan Minaj said about, you know, when you're trying to negotiate for something you need to shoot for even higher? I think he was talking about, about health care and about universal health care is like, we should have shopped even farther, asked for like crazy, ridiculous things like everyone has, some stand up comedian.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC :

He was like maybe for our health care, we should just eat the rich and that will provide the nutrition that we need to be healthy. And then we would have let in universal health care. So it's now does seem like a reasonable option.

Dyalekt :

So I'm asking like, is it that people are limited in what they're asking and what they're what's happening is they're like, trying to negotiate and this is the consequence. Because I think a lot of these policies when you dig into the history of them, you see someone was trying to do something that would have been had a major effect, right. But by the time they get into a bill, it's so watered down. Like it's here. Well, yeah, but then it's like, but people then are like, well then is it worth it to do it? Because then the other side is like Well, that's not enough. Forget at all. Yeah, that's it.

Diedrich Asante Mohamad :

We did a paper on individual IDAs. Our CSA, I guess, was chosen savings accounts. And, you know, the original writings around some of that individual development accounts, I think, you know, went up to 10,000 $20,000. And every person would get to start off seed, it would grow into money, but by the time they could actually get test pilots, these children's savings accounts were like $50, or something like that, right. And, and but the people believed in this idea of children savings accounts are kind of like a kind of like baby bonds so much that they kept trying to talk about the important contribution could make, but overlooking that, I mean, it's great. We have some pilot projects for 50 100 to $500. But we're just lying to people. When we say I'm gonna close the racial wealth divide here we can say, program to learn, but we need to say, you know, the level that it's going to require to actually make something to turn people's lives gonna be a lot more, but it's hard to get votes that way. And so they go over. And that's the challenge. But I always try to make the politic the realism of we try to the policies we think we can pass, we try to make it seem like those are the solutions to our problems instead of recognizing No. That wasn't the solution.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC :

Yeah, well, I mean, going back to what you said about closing the racial wealth divide would cost 10 to $20 trillion. I'd feel like, the first thing that people will ask is like, Where's that money coming? Right? Where's that money coming from Dedrick? That's a lot of money

Dyalekt :

Andpeople worked hard to earn it.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC :

Yes, yeah.

Dedrick Asante-Muhammad :

Well, the one thing is I will spend some time with a mentor of mine, Chuck Collins, who's really focused on redistributing wealth, right. And he really believes that it's not only important to build wealth from the bottom up, but also bring some of the ceiling down. Do with inequality so And it's why many of the reports we have, you know, instead of a wealth of state tax and these different types of, you know, tax policies that should contribute more to wealth development, cuz as I've said many times, we spend over $700 billion a year in wealth development. The problem is most of that money goes to the wealthy. So we're constantly reinvesting wealth development for the wealthy. So we should take that near, you know, $700 billions pretty close to a trillion, right. That's, that's almost 20 trillion. You know, you're getting there. But But also, there's a greater recognition that you don't have to raise taxes every time you spend money. And we can look at the recent, you know, COVID bailouts worse in a month, all of a sudden we had a bailouts, our investments anywhere from 2 trillion 6 trillion. I've seen estimates

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC :

hanging on the Fed multiple, right. Yeah, that's right.

Diedrich Asante Mohamad :

And there's no taxes raised. It actually came right after Trump. Taxes of about a year ago for many of the wealthy so and you know, and the idea is that actually, that countries like ours that print our own money, we actually aren't really going into deficit don't have to worry about it if we print so much money, that in effects of that it affects inflation. So I, honestly, when you start looking at it that way, there's a lot of money that can be spent, you know, go back to the Iraq war, and all these other ones. We don't raise taxes before we invaded Obama country, and spend hundreds of billions of dollars we just do it. And somehow it works out. So I think I think the money is there. It just the will hasn't been?

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC :

Well, yeah, I mean, and just to go back to the four to $6 trillion. We talked about this on the show before, but it's not just the dollars. It's so the actual amount that was passed by Congress was 400 and $50 billion to go to corporations. Right. The thing is, though, that because that money was being issued by the Treasury, the Federal Reserve, deemed that money Much more reliable. So they decided that they would feel comfortable leveraging it up to 10 times on the dollar, which is how 400 and $50 billion turns into $4.5 trillion for corporations. And so it's not even necessarily printing money. It's the Fed saying, Hey, we're gonna take this 400 and $50 billion, and we're gonna allow corporations to borrow it at 10 times on the dollar. And that's really how we create money also is with debt.

Dyalekt :

And with leveraging debt. Well, and the thing that the the big word of what you said is that they trust them, they trust them that they like, yeah, that's fine. Yeah.

Dedrick Asante-Muhammad :

No, I think that's important. Bring up that other tool of it. I'm kind of highlighting the idea that we can print money, but you're highlighting also that you can leverage money as well. One of the interesting reparations those I've heard, was the idea that every you know, person who's deemed to give reparations, we get $50,000 tax credit toward a real estate purchase?

Dyalekt :

Yeah.

Diedrich Asante Mohamad :

What I found I like about that is $50,000 can easily be leveraged 200 $300,000. More, up to 500,000 maybe more a piece of property or home or what have you. It's a way of giving out a good amount of money without having to actually give the 500,002 was something that hopefully would last over generations. So I think there's there's many different tools and ideas outside of the kind of blunt instrument I put forward, around $20,000 a year for for every person do. I think honestly, a mix of those types of things is something because again, you can't eat off your $50,000 a state tax credit. If you really need some money to help get you a better apartment and a safer neighborhood or buy better quality food for your kids. You know, you got to be able to get returns on a $50,000 tax credit for years. You need some immediate assistance. And that's where, you know, the idea of direct and immediate cash is also needed to deal with this racial wealth divide.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC :

Yeah, there's so many multiple things that need to happen to be addressed. Even just the little things you said, What's your big things about like, putting your kids putting good food in front of your kids, right, being able to address mental health being able to address like physical health, all of these kinds of things. There is money. Yeah, they're not little things. That's the thing.

Dyalekt :

Yeah, they're details. Yeah, because they're multifarious and multifaceted. They seem like little things, we have to look at them from a really far away lens. Yeah, I think that's the really important part of it, right, is that these things have to be addressed, otherwise, the money will go into what's gone. Yeah. Or it's not gonna be enough to get you above.

Diedrich Asante Mohamad :

One thing is we're talking that I'm realizing you know, it's kind of instinct thing for a show. To this one is like the positive socio economic things we've learned through the COVID crisis. And, again, that there is Money that can be spent when needed to help people. There were some new shows watching and they were talking about how they were, you know, cities are giving money to small restaurants and small entreprenuer selling food, to give out free food to help to do a twofer, right to help small business and to help those that are dealing with food insecurity. You know, and I was thinking if you did something like that ongoing, particularly aimed at businesses that are under capitalized like black Latino businesses, and just made that an ongoing program that black and Latino restaurants or food businesses or he can go into other businesses are getting government money to do these things for service because so many black Latino businesses, they're American businesses want to serve their communities. And it can be quite challenging when you're an asset poverty, to then try to figure out how to make profit by serving people and assets. But if the government could invest in that you're creating Institute And you're giving, you know, nutrients to people. You know, I think that's the type of thing that, you know, could provide some promise in addition to other policies.

Dyalekt :

But isn't investing here some of the people who play devil's advocate will say, so I just saw it. My thing is investing in one community over another community playing favorites and favoritism and isn't favoritism when the government funds one thing over another thing wrong. So wouldn't that be a situation of two wrongs? Not making a right?

Dedrick Asante-Muhammad :

Basically, if there's someone hungry on the street, and I give them a granola bar, I might not have given it to the other person who seemed fine standing on the street. Why would I give just a random person the granola bar like I could have, right but and you know, if people have done this through me, right about all houses matter, they have a picture of a house on fire, and then another picture of a house not on fire. It's a was like, Well, why are you spraying all the water in the house is on fire? Don't all houses matter? Like, no, because there's a house on fire because you're dealing with a particular issue. That's why we would you know, that's what we give programs for the poor. We don't, you know, the programs aren't for everybody, because we understand they're in crisis. That's why we created Social Security. It wasn't just because we like old people. There is a massive problem of elderly being in poverty of like, sometimes even actually starving. So we created a Social Security system that helps people when they got in that situation, we need to recognize the history of racial inequality. We've had people maintain an economic disenfranchisement for centuries, and we're finally going to deal with that, you know, so

Dyalekt :

Yeah. So let the choir sing. You don't own everything you survey you are not The Lion King. Just say, Well, again, that's like a thing that we need to unlearn is that like, all of the stuff out there is not ours. not made for us.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC :

Yeah, you don't have to take advantage. You don't have to qualify for every program, especially if it's not for you.

Dyalekt :

Okay, if there are programs that benefit people who are other than you.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC :

Because you benefit from putting programs I did not mention. That's what happens. I mean, I want to end the conversation

Dedrick Asante-Muhammad :

Until you benefit by having other people benefit. The idea that you have to get the exact amount out of some pot to make to make it fair. No, like we benefit when we have a society that is generally prosperous. And again, hopefully, we've learned from COVID, right, you can't have good health care, and you'll be tested. And COVID is done. Right. Like, no, it's not done until the masses are tested until the masses issue until we quarantine this and society as a whole, not just to you and your family.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC :

Yeah, I think this is a perfect way to end the conversation, this idea of private wealth versus public wealth right? This idea of like, I need to accumulate as much wealth individually for me and my family to close the racial wealth divide or whatever XYZ to build generational wealth, versus creating public policy that creates public wealth where you don't have to make as much money because your health care is taken care of because your school is taken care of because you don't have student loans because you're not worried about going hungry because you're not worried about finding affordable housing. The reason why there's this feeling that we all have to make so much more money is because we have to cover so many things individually that so many other countries and so many other economies cover publicly for their citizens.

Dyalekt :

So less lion kings more hyenas with a reason to laugh. Yeah, I mean, the idea that we can take what's mine and make it into ours, is very difficult and very scary. I keep bringing these kids films and all because it starts very early. The idea that what's mine is mine and I must fight for the thing that is mine. Even If I don't have a great understanding of all the routes that build this tree that I now claim as mine, right?

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC :

Well, the missing individualism is another huge art thing, right? It's another It was a huge, like oppressive art movement, that when we talked about bootstrapping, and talk about the American dream, when we talk about rags to riches, it's all built upon this myth of individualism and this concept of like, I have to do it all myself. And if I don't do it, then someone else is going to take something away from me.

Dyalekt :

You can see this throughout popular culture. I think one of the big things about the myth of individuality that we don't give enough credence to is the popularity of sports throughout the majority of our parents generation boxing was the number one sport and it was the most individual thing I straight up beat you're behind and you are less than me. As those things transitioned into our team sports we give a lot of lip service to teamwork and unity and things like that. But who do you know in every sport, you know, the MVP? Yeah, and there is another one guy and there is so much of the race. Well stuff in that, you know, also, but there's this idea that there was a conqueror. Even when we talk about wars in history. You talk about the conquest, you don't talk about the army. Yeah, you know, when we break things down to the smallest possible that whole 300 people that there was really more like 10,000 people at dimopoulos that's a funny story. When you're saying like, it's one dude.

Dedrick Asante-Muhammad :

Yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, look at the wars. You look at the generals. Yeah, that's the people fighting. I think one thing I want to highlight is, and we talked a little bit about this earlier, recreating public assets. And the last time we had mass investments was the creation of the white American middle class 1940s and 50s. And there was, and there was some economic truth to this in the United States. That industry was booming in the United States in particular, manufacturing was booming. And so there was some type of calculus that could be made that actually the best way to distribute many These resources, health care, pension, these types of things are through these new, massive corporations and industry. But we're not in that space anymore. We have massive corporations, but they don't hiring in massive ways, right? This kind of concentrated wealth have pretty elite workforce. And so I think we're now need to do a new 21st century investment. And we're going to find that actually, private industry isn't the best way to distribute healthcare. We've already gotten rid of pensions as a serious way to kind of help the age. And so it will go back to government as the way to be the best distributor of these resources that create strong public wealth that fits with this idea that you have a job one day, you don't have a job the next day, but even if you don't have a job, you still might have access to income to health care and allows for the creative destruction. People say it's necessary to move the economy forward. We just don't all have to be destroyed to add that capital.

Dyalekt :

Yeah. And as you say, you know, government I think that also raises people's hackles and gets them nervous, but again creatively, artistically, educationally, we have to remove the idea that the government is a separate entity from us that it is not the idea of it, and that it can't be something that is the will of the people, when all you tell people is that broccoli doesn't taste good. And then you worry about why the kids aren't eating their greens. It's self evident.

Dedrick Asante-Muhammad :

Yeah, well, you know, and the another lesson, hopefully being learned to COVID is there's some things the only government can do. Like, Apple is not gonna stop COVID. Right, like, Facebook is not going to significant. It's only through, you know, government, which is us, you know, and it's all of us connected in some way to voting some of the disenfranchised, but it's still it's only massive entity that really can deal with those types of issues. And you can point similarly to the west coast fires are in a policy like, that has to be done. I think people had these illusions that the private sector is going to solve these things and private sector has done little to nothing as it relates to COVID. And we've seen by relying on the private sector, I think our have realized in this country to substitute the public sector is what's made our country the worst in the developed world in dealing with COVID. In a true public crisis.

Dyalekt :

Yeah. Wow. Well, we figure out that we cannot rely on the billionaire private class to save us, before the number of Batman adaptations outranks the number of Dracula adaptations. We might already do that. Yeah, I just wanted to throw out that, you know, again, when we talk about the things we've been raised on, we've been raised on the idea that the rich and the powerful, in many ways are the ones that are the only ones who can save us.

Dedrick Asante-Muhammad :

Yeah, I'm gonna think about this idea of Batman and Dracula because I think there's a lot of things we can do about, you know, blood sucking and a millionaire vigilante. You know, things go together I'm gonna think about that.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC :

We also need some kind of superhero that's like a government worker. That would be great.

Dyalekt :

In the x men they have the freedom for us which was originally the constructed the original x men who work for the government and then the to continue our cynicism about the government, they immediately replace them with super villain. Great. And then the Super Villains were sent out on a secret government mission to do some even shading your stuff than the Super Villains want to do. I mean,

Dedrick Asante-Muhammad :

A superhero that was a government official. I know this is monarchy, but Black Panther. Actually I don't know if we can get into this later. But I think kind of UC coats where I like a lot might have actually got a little bit into a new neoliberal critique by trying to bring down Black Panther as a strong monarch. And the idea that that should be separated, the more Like a different type of a different type of democracy, that that what isn't what a superhero should be. But I find that I like that idea interesting and kind of exploring what a superhero is related to government. And you know what that means for thinking about how change occurs not to some one, because if you write a movie, it's always the person that doesn't take orders. Yeah, the person that buys themselves is saving the massive verse. Honestly, the people who save us usually the people who are taking orders, and are, you know, willing to help, you know, for general cause even though they're not making all the decisions at that moment.

Dyalekt :

To finish that off, remember that, you know, in real life, we're less likely to get a black panther as a monarch and we're more likely to get a doctor who is well beloved in his home kingdom. But he's out there destroying the rest of the world. And that's what we do a lot, y'all you're pretty okay because we think of ourselves at war. We think of us it's not just a zero sum situation. It's not If I don't do this to you one of you will do this to me. It's scary. I discussed this with my to show I talked about the word hypocrite hypocrite was originally created to make sure that you can see the wolves in sheep's clothing. But now we simply use it to say that everybody is a wolf or as a potential wolf. So now we have no trust over anyone but ourselves. It's why people say this do your own research nonsense, even if you ain't been chained and doing research.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC :

All right, take us out.

Dyalekt :

We got to do some democracy because I got three songs that I like and I didn't have time to decide. So without asking too many things, Diedrich American, a French?

Dedrick Asante-Muhammad :

French.

Dyalekt :

Then if it's French then I have a second question. Is it our body or is it relaxed?

Dedrick Asante-Muhammad :

Relaxed.

Dyalekt :

Okay, so we're going to France for an artist named Mooney. DBH featuring puffy on With this song The song is generate Shawn future and I was saying you know the chill one because they described their sound as French g punk and that's what we got. We hope you guys well you know we didn't say at least we could do it most you could do you know least you could do is listen to what we say and the most you can do is do something with it so go and do stuff with it whether you from this place or you from another one and we can continue to build this choir preach to them. No at this thing in check y'all next time. Thank you lot. Peace.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC :

Thank you, everybody.